Frequently Asked Questions

Answered by Don Nance, a commercial alchemist and lifetime member of the International Alchemy Guild.

Q: Can I use seawater that has been drawn up from 35 feet below the surface for use in the "Wet Process?"

Don: Yes…though it is best to stay far away from shipping lanes -perhaps as much as 2 miles. The areas around marinas are also avoided. . The focus is to have clean seawater taken at mid-depth (between the surface and the sea floor) and the deeper the better.

Chris: "…Depending on the geographical area, a good depth to collect ocean water is between 50 to 100 feet. Seawater is not drawn from the top waters because pollution generally stays in the top 25 feet of the water and sunlight filtering through the top waters is thought to drive Ormus away. Therefore, do not collect seawater from the top waters of the sea and do not collect ocean water any closer than 32 feet from the bottom as organic pollutants are near the bottom…" (Ormus: Modern Day Alchemy Primer of Ormus Collection Processes Reference Edition)

Q: I can't get on the ocean but want seawater for use in a "Wet Process." Do I have any options?

Don: Yes. Use a natural sea salt to reconstitute seawater. This is explained in the book. Celtic Grey salt makes an excellent Manna. You can also use Masada brand Dead Sea salt. You can use Great Salt Lake water as sold by Trace Minerals Research as "Pure Inland Seawater" and is available at places like the Vitamin Shoppe, etc. "Pure Inland Seawater" water should be diluted (with distilled water) 1:1 before use because it is double concentrated as sold.

Chris: sells Real Ocean Water item # 910058 in a 5 gallon container. This is a product of the Catalina Water Company and is discussed in the book.

Q: Which is better: Dead Sea salt or drawn Seawater to use in a "Wet Process?"

Don: Neither is better. They are different sources and therefore give a different ratio of the M-state elements. The Atlantic Ocean Manna is different than that made from Pacific Ocean water which is different from than that made from Great Salt Lake water, etc.

Q: I would like to ask you how much Ocean Water you process at a time. Do you perform a process by the Gallons or just enough for a few weeks?

Don: I make manna on-demand so I tend to work with at least a gallon at a time. However, if you are alone or have a smaller family then you may choose to just use a quart at a time. Each source gives us a different yield so experimentation with your chosen source should be your teacher.

Q: I am curious how the name Ormus was chosen for this material. A story in Wikipedia says there was an ancient society near the Persian Gulf called Ormus. Is there any connection between this society and the name chosen for the book "Ormus: Modern Day alchemy?"

Don: I cannot see any connection. The term ORME was first used to describe the M-state elements by David Hudson. In His patent application, he named them "O.R.M.E.:" "orbitally rearranged monatomic element." Over the decades, other names, such as ORMUS, have evolved, due in part to cause no infringement on the David Hudson patent applications. I usually call them M-state or Manna.

Q: How Long is the "Wet Process" going to take?

Don: The actual precipitation step usually takes me about an hour once I begin stirring. You would want to go slower until you gain some experience. Then the wash steps take a minimum of 24 hours each if you want to have a good separation. Again the time a precipitation step takes depends largely upon your chosen starting source material.

Q: When I receive my copy of Ormus: Modern Day Alchemy, I want to "hit the deck running" so, what supplies can I already have ready?

Don: A pH meter or fresh pH paper. You would be best served by a pH meter such as a Hanna Checker that sells for about $40 on the internet. (You will need calibration solutions of pH 7.01 and pH 10.01)
1 pound of sodium hydroxide powder (NaOH) or crystals (preferably food grade)
Some distilled water from a supermarket…3 gallons should be enough.
1 gallon of distilled white vinegar for cleaning your utensils.
Some seawater or a good sea salt. (Do not choose any salt that has anti-caking agents, coloring or perfume added.)
One or two 1-quart Pyrex or equivalent measuring cups.
A plastic stirring utensil. This may include spatulas, spoons, etc.
(1) 1-cup measuring cup and assorted size non-metallic measuring spoons for measuring your NaOH material and sea salt.
(1) 1-quart (or larger) measuring cup for performing the precipitation and wash steps. This can be made of HDPE plastic or glass. The use of lead crystal glass is SERIOUSLY not recommended (this is discussed in our book). The safest material to use would be HDPE plastic. Plastic buckets are readily available from paint suppliers in sizes from 1 gallon to 5 gallons.
(1) 1-gallon (larger or smaller) container if storing unused boiled & filtered seawater. This can be HDPE plastic or glass.
Note: If you wish to store larger amounts of raw seawater this is best done by adding a ratio of 5 ml of 35% Hydrogen Peroxide (H2O2) to each gallon of raw seawater (see note from Chris below). This way, you can store a large amount and just boil and filter it as you need to use it. This is especially helpful to those people that do not live near the oceans. Now you can bring a few hundred gallons home from vacation! ;-)

Chris: The measurement conversion for 5 ml is 1 tsp. Use a measuring device that doesn't have to be completely filled or have to be held during the pouring of Hydrogen Peroxide. For example, choose a medicine cup that is calibrated in tsp or ml and be sure to follow the Hydrogen Peroxide cautions listed on page 110 of Ormus: Modern Day Alchemy.

Q: "I can't wait to begin so I am going to the hardware store and buy Litmus test papers to test the PH…"

Don: I still recommend spending the $40 for a pH meter. They are MUCH more accurate than litmus paper. Actually, litmus paper is used as a rough indicator of acidity or alkalinity and the readings are affected by temperature. To arrive at more accurate readings, "pH paper" which covers the desired pH range would be chosen and this is more expensive than litmus paper. Consequently the price will quickly exceed the price of a $40.00 pH meter as one continues to perform the Ormus collection Processes. Therefore, I suggest you order a pH meter and wait the necessary amount of time for it to arrive at your door! (Chris: A note regarding time from page 3 of the book "…"time" is spoken of in this manner: the real time is that time which it takes … that time which IS…")

Q: Where do I buy Lye (Sodium Hydroxide, NaOH)?

Don: You can buy food grade "lye" on the Internet or from any local chemical supply house. We use sodium hydroxide (NaOH) which Americans call "lye". Sources of lye/NaOH are also listed in Appendix I of the book.

Q: I am concerned about the use of the lye chemical in a product that I may ingest…

Don: Lye is the strongest of alkalis and dangerous in concentrated solutions, however the "chemical" itself does not contain toxic ingredients. It contains sodium (Na), just like table salt does and a hydroxyl group (OH) just as occurs when Baking Soda is dissolved in water. Both chemicals are alkaline; Lye is just a stronger alkali than baking soda… As we perform the pH swing, the sodium hydroxide solution donates the hydroxyl group allowing the M-state/Ormus elements to form insoluble hydroxides which comprise the fluffy white precipitate that we see. If you do not overshoot the target pH of 10.5 or so (this is described in the book), then all of the "lye" is used up in making the precipitate and is no longer active. It is no longer "lye." You could actually eat the Manna at that point but the Wet Process Materials taste too acrid and the Dry Process materials taste too salty. The wash steps are mostly to remove any water-soluble materials (like the excess salt and any unused hydroxides). These are gone after the first wash. This is explained in the book in the Chemistry chapter (Appendix XXII).

Chris: Now, you must know how lye is routinely used during the preparation of many types of foods. For example: Lutefisk, green olives, hominy, lye rolls, century eggs, pretzels, zongzi (Chinese glutinous rice dumplings) and Chinese noodles. In addition, it is used when making lye bagels and soft German pretzels.) Lye is also used for making pH adjustments to many foods and sauces and pH adjustment is precisely what we use it for. It is in no way toxic. You eat and drink hydroxides and acids daily. You can prove it to yourself by putting your pH meter to work and looking at the pH of your foods and drinks.

Q: Another question comes to mind regarding the strength of the Lye solution. Seems like there are people doing it differently than what the document explains at Barry's Site.

Don: If everyone uses the same strength of solutions, it is easier for us to diagnose what may have gone wrong when someone runs into a problem. For the processes detailed in the book, a 1:8 strength works very, very well. That is ½ cup of lye (NaOH) crystals mixed as described in the book into 1 quart of distilled water. This would be about 125 grams per liter of water in the metric system.

Q: I have been asking about washing the precipitate after performing a "Wet Process". I wash mine very well however, I like a little salty taste to mine and that just isn't there after repeated washing. I thought that I have heard that at least 2 washings are done on the precipitate

Don: Once the reactions are done and the initial precipitate has settled, the only reason to wash the precipitate is to remove any excess salt and hydroxyls that are left from the NaOH solution. If you are concerned about the NaOH you can wash the precipitate three times and then add some grains of sea salt as described in the book. Or you can read the answer to the next question below.

Q: I have Another question about washing: I have heard that sometimes no washing is done if sending the precipitate (the Ormus manna) collected during the "Wet process" overseas.

Don: If I am going to ship the manna, I will separate the precipitate as described in the book and wash it one time by adding three times as much distilled water as precipitate by volume. That is, if I have 100 ml. of precipitate I will add 300 ml. of water, stir well to mix, let it settle and then I separate the manna again and add more water to reduce its thickness for easier swallowing. The salt left in it seems to really add stability but there is not so much of it that it tastes unpleasant. Many ICP assays have shown that there are no toxins present in the finished products.

Q: I have been looking for a propane turkey ring burner with a double ring of flame as my heat source for the collection processes that cause a burn. This item is hard for me to find.

Chris: Bayou Classic sells many ring burners. The one with a double ring of flame, called a high/low is Bayou Classic SQ14.

Q: I have been looking for some GSL (Great Salt Lake) minerals so I can make some White Dove. I have the Back Sand so now I need some GSL Minerals. Do you know of a source?

Don: I invented the White Dove as a result of my understanding of the M-state elements, processes and after studying the ancient alchemy of several cultures for more than 10 years. If you know these materials then making the Dove is no biggie but it was intended to be a proprietary Manna so that I have some chance of staying in business while still teaching people these things that were previously secrets and knowing all along that many of these people would become direct competitors. If you have THE black sand (and that material is not common magnetite) then you can make an excellent Manna from it by following the processes in the book.

The Salt Lake water question has been answered earlier on the FAQ page.

Q: What is the use of Hydrogen in the Ormus processes?

Don: The main use for Hydrogen is the hydrochloric acid solution that we use for reducing the pH during the Dry Method Process. David Hudson has postulated that his O.R.M.E. elements form bonds with hydrogen but that is theoretical at this point. We will know more during the coming year as this is one of the focal points of my research. Also, David Hudson's process was mostly one of using concentrated acids on the pure Platinum group metals and the Noble metals of Gold, Silver and Copper. I have performed those processes and believe me, they are way beyond the difficulty of even the most difficult processes in this book. Once you have Mastered all of the processes in our book you *might* then be ready to perform the David Hudson Australian Patent process that is available on the Internet.

Q: The website describes informative and easy to follow methods of Ormus collection. I am wondering how we know that the material collected is the same natural altered state that David Hudson found.

Don: The term "Ormus" is currently being used to describe a wide variety of products made from an equally wide variety of methods. The processes listed in our book produce gold, silver, copper, and platinum group elements in the M-state that do not assay to be there. They are invisible to normal spectrographic analysis, ie; they are "stealth atoms" and I have personally reduced them to their metallic form of gold, silver, copper and platinum group metals that DO assay to be what they are.

The actual certified assays are on the web site showing the assays of the starting material, the M-state (Manna) form and the "tortured" form where I had forced the M-state back to metal in order to prove what was in the Manna. I show gold nuggets and a platinum group coated electrode at my workshops and lectures. The proof is in the pudding ;-)

The only debate at this point is how these elements are actually forming bonds during the various processes. As stated above, David Hudson says that his concentrated acid process yields, using gold as the example, Hydrogen Auride. This means that the hydrogen atom has been taken to the 1- state and is now the H- ion and the monatomic gold ion (Au+) bonds with it. However, the Essene says that the M-state gold is tied to sodium. And arguments in favor of this opinion are that the sodium shows up in the assays and that solid state physics has proven that stable compounds of NaAu (sodium-gold) exist.

My opinion is that BOTH are happening simultaneously. The sodium is very likely decomposing to provide electrons for the H- state and the very same sodium ion may then be forming with one half of a diatom of Au while the H- ion bonds with the other half of the Au diatom that has simultaneously been split apart from itself, that is, the two atoms of gold are no longer a single diatom of gold but are now two monatoms with one attached to H- and the other to Na. I have devised an experiment that should tell us whether my opinion holds salt or not. :

It has been my experience to notice that Mother Nature makes use of any and all possibilities as she moves her perfections toward a higher vibratory frequency. So, if she can find a way it will be so.

Another thing to make note of is that not all of the processes listed on the Internet have been proven. In fact most of them have not been proven. You would be surprised to learn that many makers of so-called "Ormus " products have never had their own products assayed and have never taken them to their metallic form in order to prove or even understand what they themselves are providing. Some are even simply whispering the word "Ormus" while standing over distilled water and selling it as "Ormus."

If you stick to the processes in the book you can be assured of what you are getting. My research and thousands of dollars spent for certified assays speak for themselves. Again, the proof really IS in the pudding.

I hope you have found this information interesting if not useful! It has been said that the very best Manna is that which you make yourself! Just be patient and be careful with your pH adjustments and you will discover the magic of the "Spirit Matter."

Don Nance

Barry Carter also has a FAQ page at